Slave Driving

Date: Nov 3, 2018

Slave Driving

GreyKnitHat · Senior Member

Im aware. Ya know, theres no point in trying to get lazy and uncaring people to work when they dont respond. Instead, **** on the hard workers who care and already do ten times more, because theyll respond to it. Dont forget that the next time you find management screaming at you.

yankeedog · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:
There've been a few comments on here recently, re abusive managers with poor/no people skills.
A word or two on that.
As a former salaried retail manager, let me assure you: these people aren't just abberant personalities that accidentally slipped into their jobs; retail corporations seek these types out and/or push on the ones already among the ranks to be like this. It's all about domination and control = higher profits.
There are actual training materials on how to write people up; i.e., what types of responses you can expect, how best to counter them, etc. And there are step-by-step psychological based instructions on how much to verbally and mentally 'motivate' your employees without 'risking jeopardizing productive initiatives' ----that's the actual language used.
So bear all this in mind. Not only is reporting these abusive managers likely not going to get you anywhere, their behavior is expected----and rewared.
Pretty creepy, huh? Like Nazi Germany.

Yeah...

But there is no-one on earth who is in complete control of anything or anyone.

Plus when you attempt to control anything or anyone, you end up with more problems to deal with.

And that requires more energy that could have been spent on something much more productive.

Just let go of your need to control.

-- Edited by yankeedog on Saturday 3rd of November 2018 08:25:45 PM

TheDragoness · Veteran Member

Ahhh so that explains a lot, yikes, I am glad I quit, I have a much better job now

Date: Nov 3, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
There've been a few comments on here recently, re abusive managers with poor/no people skills.
A word or two on that.
As a former salaried retail manager, let me assure you: these people aren't just abberant personalities that accidentally slipped into their jobs; retail corporations seek these types out and/or push on the ones already among the ranks to be like this. It's all about domination and control = higher profits.
There are actual training materials on how to write people up; i.e., what types of responses you can expect, how best to counter them, etc. And there are step-by-step psychological based instructions on how much to verbally and mentally 'motivate' your employees without 'risking jeopardizing productive initiatives' ----that's the actual language used.
So bear all this in mind. Not only is reporting these abusive managers likely not going to get you anywhere, their behavior is expected----and rewared.
Pretty creepy, huh? Like Nazi Germany.

Domination and control doesn't mean higher profits, at least not in the long term...It means RESENTFUL, DISENGAGED EMPLOYEES and companies WILL lose good, often exceptional workers because of it, esp. if said workers can find other positions elsewhere (AND if such positions pay better and treat their people better)...

Oh, and it's not verbal and mental "motivation"...It's downright ABUSE and people need to call it what it is and not sugar-coat the language! There are people who can get their "people" to produce and produce very effectively and they DON'T have to resort to such petty, outdated and often ineffective ways of thinking...Coaches can get their players to play and they don't have to beat up the players to do it...Some actually INSPIRE greatness with their words!

Regarding these retail managers, their "bad" behavior can be rewarded all they want...It DOESN'T make it right, nor is it effective! Guess what??? I can look myself in the mirror every morning and know I did an honest day's work for an honest day's pay! THEY don't have an honest bone in their body and if they were TRULY honest about all this, they wouldn't be able to look at themselves in the mirror every morning like I do! If they were REALLY honest about how ineffective all of this really is and if they knew just how much their rank-and-file employees KNEW about what they were doing, they would change their habits pretty quickly...

I've never seen more employees reading the Union handbook than I have in recent times and some even highlighting certain passages to make sure management isn't breaking any rules or accusing someone falsely of something not in the handbook...

But, as you said, it's all about money and there is no incentive to change! Even a President can't be impeached for his vile behavior...Of course, CEO's do it, too...

Well, I've got news for everyone...Life is not just about how much money you can make, but how much of a difference you can make in the world...

And if you're a retail manager, you know you've made a difference when you leave a store and EVERY employee would rather you stay around instead of wishing you were dead! Because, in all honesty, what good is it if you're gone and no one even misses you, cares or gives a damn??!!!

To sum it all up...It's time all of these companies start making some real, lasting changes for the better instead of living in the past or they won't be around in the future! People are tired of the BS and the "management tricks" just aren't working anymore!

Companies (and not only retail companies) can "encourage" this brash behavior all they want, but at least to the workers, it's falling on deaf ears! evileye

Date: Nov 4, 2018

And by the way, the mental health/sanity of employees is affected by this behavior...It also says a lot about the mental health of certain managers...If I had a nickel for every time I thought a manager was losing his or her mind... confuse Which is why we need to take the mental health of the workplace much more seriously than we do, as this article alludes to...

https://hbr.org/2018/11/we-need-to-talk-more-about-mental-health-at-work

Not discussing these things can only lead to more problems...

Keep in mind that the most psychologically abusive people are often the most in need of help themselves...

This is not an issue of power, control and domination as much as it is about weakness...It is very much a sign of weakness in a manager when they have to revert to such tactics to keep their employees "productive" the same as it is a sign of weakness in a parent to try to control their kids that way...Eventually, the kids will rebel! They always do!

yankeedog · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
There've been a few comments on here recently, re abusive managers with poor/no people skills.
A word or two on that.
As a former salaried retail manager, let me assure you: these people aren't just abberant personalities that accidentally slipped into their jobs; retail corporations seek these types out and/or push on the ones already among the ranks to be like this. It's all about domination and control = higher profits.
There are actual training materials on how to write people up; i.e., what types of responses you can expect, how best to counter them, etc. And there are step-by-step psychological based instructions on how much to verbally and mentally 'motivate' your employees without 'risking jeopardizing productive initiatives' ----that's the actual language used.
So bear all this in mind. Not only is reporting these abusive managers likely not going to get you anywhere, their behavior is expected----and rewared.
Pretty creepy, huh? Like Nazi Germany.
Domination and control doesn't mean higher profits, at least not in the long term...It means RESENTFUL, DISENGAGED EMPLOYEES and companies WILL lose good, often exceptional workers because of it, esp. if said workers can find other positions elsewhere (AND if such positions pay better and treat their people better)...
Oh, and it's not verbal and mental "motivation"...It's downright ABUSE and people need to call it what it is and not sugar-coat the language! There are people who can get their "people" to produce and produce very effectively and they DON'T have to resort to such petty, outdated and often ineffective ways of thinking...Coaches can get their players to play and they don't have to beat up the players to do it...Some actually INSPIRE greatness with their words!
Regarding these retail managers, their "bad" behavior can be rewarded all they want...It DOESN'T make it right, nor is it effective! Guess what??? I can look myself in the mirror every morning and know I did an honest day's work for an honest day's pay! THEY don't have an honest bone in their body and if they were TRULY honest about all this, they wouldn't be able to look at themselves in the mirror every morning like I do! If they were REALLY honest about how ineffective all of this really is and if they knew just how much their rank-and-file employees KNEW about what they were doing, they would change their habits pretty quickly...
I've never seen more employees reading the Union handbook than I have in recent times and some even highlighting certain passages to make sure management isn't breaking any rules or accusing someone falsely of something not in the handbook...
But, as you said, it's all about money and there is no incentive to change! Even a President can't be impeached for his vile behavior...Of course, CEO's do it, too...
Well, I've got news for everyone...Life is not just about how much money you can make, but how much of a difference you can make in the world...
And if you're a retail manager, you know you've made a difference when you leave a store and EVERY employee would rather you stay around instead of wishing you were dead! Because, in all honesty, what good is it if you're gone and no one even misses you, cares or gives a damn??!!!
To sum it all up...It's time all of these companies start making some real, lasting changes for the better instead of living in the past or they won't be around in the future! People are tired of the BS and the "management tricks" just aren't working anymore!
Companies (and not only retail companies) can "encourage" this brash behavior all they want, but at least to the workers, it's falling on deaf ears!

I reported to 2 bosses like that when I worked for my last employer, and I was not happy.

-- Edited by yankeedog on Sunday 4th of November 2018 07:40:07 AM

yankeedog · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:
And by the way, the mental health/sanity of employees is affected by this behavior...It also says a lot about the mental health of certain managers...If I had a nickel for every time I thought a manager was losing his or her mind... Which is why we need to take the mental health of the workplace much more seriously than we do, as this article alludes to...
https://hbr.org/2018/11/we-need-to-talk-more-about-mental-health-at-work
Not discussing these things can only lead to more problems...
Keep in mind that the most psychologically abusive people are often the most in need of help themselves...
This is not an issue of power, control and domination as much as it is about weakness...It is very much a sign of weakness in a manager when they have to revert to such tactics to keep their employees "productive" the same as it is a sign of weakness in a parent to try to control their kids that way...Eventually, the kids will rebel! They always do!

This is very true.

Date: Nov 4, 2018

It would be nice, and much appreciated, if the OP or others could elaborate and expound on these strategies, tactics, training materials, etc.

I have always hated this type of management/management style. And yes, it makes me resentful. But I might sadly have to admit it does work to at least some extent since you start doing things just to avoid this nitpicking, micromanaging, condescension, etc. I was told this recently too, that these managers are being told to behave like this. They go to meetings where they are told to do this, someone once suggested. And I have seen managers who used to be nice just start being butt holes out of the blue.

This little article has a nice summary.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Anonymous wrote:

It would be nice, and much appreciated, if the OP or others could elaborate and expound on these strategies, tactics, training materials, etc.
We'll start with this. I wasn't writing a term paper or trying to sell you anything, so I don't need a sources-cited reference or a bibiography or anything else. You can believe it. Or not.

I have always hated this type of management/management style. And yes, it makes me resentful.But I might sadly have to admit it does work to at least some extent
Yes, it works wonderfully when you look at the spread sheet. So does literal slavery (which is still going on all over the world; it's not just something the evil white man did here)

since you start doing things just to avoid this nitpicking, micromanaging, condescension, etc. I was told this recently too, that these managers are being told to behave like this. They go to meetings where they are told to do this, someone once suggested. And I have seen managers who used to be nice just start being butt holes out of the blue.
Yep. You just re stated and confirmed my case----and neither of us used documented data. Have a great day!

This little article has a nice summary.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

lol, why are you such a defensive little *******? You passed your management training? No one asked you to cite sources. I was merely asking for more info. Thanks.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Also, so yeah, since you totally misconstrued my post and assumed I was being combative when I was merely asking for more info so that I may arm myself with knowledge to battle the slave drivers, perhaps you might benefit from reading the article I linked. Specifically item #1:

"

1. Step Back and Reassess

Start by giving your boss the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this is all a misunderstanding. Maybe youre being a little (dare I say it) sensitive?"

Anyhow. Anyone who has more info on this please share so that we may arm ourselves with knowledge, as I said.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

I didn't misconstrue anything. I called you out on being a dick, and now I'm calling you out on being a pussy. biggrin

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
There've been a few comments on here recently, re abusive managers with poor/no people skills.
A word or two on that.
As a former salaried retail manager, let me assure you: these people aren't just abberant personalities that accidentally slipped into their jobs; retail corporations seek these types out and/or push on the ones already among the ranks to be like this. It's all about domination and control = higher profits.
There are actual training materials on how to write people up; i.e., what types of responses you can expect, how best to counter them, etc. And there are step-by-step psychological based instructions on how much to verbally and mentally 'motivate' your employees without 'risking jeopardizing productive initiatives' ----that's the actual language used.
So bear all this in mind. Not only is reporting these abusive managers likely not going to get you anywhere, their behavior is expected----and rewared.
Pretty creepy, huh? Like Nazi Germany.

Actually there is a reward. One of these days these so called managers are gonna say the wrong thing to a unstable person who will in turn blow their head off with a hand cannon.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
I didn't misconstrue anything. I called you out on being a dick, and now I'm calling you out on being a pussy.

Couldnt agree more with your response smile

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Nothing like a few trolls to screw things up around here...This is serious stuff, people! Stop dragging each other into the mud and FOCUS!

Unless you're one of those mentally unstable, abusive ones we've been talking about...Well, then...You're no damn better than them! evileye

Man, there are some real winners (aka LOSERS) on this board that have nothing constructive to say to anyone...Idiots, all of 'em!!!

By the way, that WAS a great article for anyone that actually TOOK THE TIME TO READ IT!

I don't know if it'll change anything regarding these managers, but it's a start...

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
I didn't misconstrue anything. I called you out on being a dick, and now I'm calling you out on being a pussy.

You assumed I was being sarcastic instead of sincere when I asked for more info. It's plain to see I never asked you for citations or a bibliography, as you claimed with much hyperbole. And now you refuse to admit your mistake.

"It would be nice, and much appreciated, if the OP or others could elaborate and expound on these strategies, tactics, training materials, etc." Was a sincere request; not sarcasm.

Oh well, I guess we're going to just keep playing childish games instead of getting more information, like "They tell managers to do so and so." "The training manual says this and that, verbatim." "I read this and this in the manual." "They told me in a meeting to do this in order to get this as a response." Etc. etc.

Date: Nov 5, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
By the way, that WAS a great article for anyone that actually TOOK THE TIME TO READ IT!
I don't know if it'll change anything regarding these managers, but it's a start...

Yes, I linked the article because, as I said, I have been noticing this, even from managers who used to be nice or "normal." I had one who changed after going to an out-of-town meeting. This person never was bossy at all and just started bossing people around.

And now I have noticed another manager who has become mean recently. Walks around with a condescending glare, that pierces you and looks down on you. And this manager talks with a very condescending tone, as if they have told you this several times already, except that it's actually the first time they have ever said this to you. Basically, whenever they talk to anyone it's condescending.

Some of the manager's styles have been described by 3 separate employees as, "Talking to us like we're children." They talk to you like you're stupid. Apparently in an attempt to destroy your self-esteem, I would guess.

Date: Nov 7, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I didn't misconstrue anything. I called you out on being a dick, and now I'm calling you out on being a pussy.
You assumed I was being sarcastic instead of sincere when I asked for more info. It's plain to see I never asked you for citations or a bibliography, as you claimed with much hyperbole. And now you refuse to admit your mistake.
"It would be nice, and much appreciated, if the OP or others could elaborate and expound on these strategies, tactics, training materials, etc." Was a sincere request; not sarcasm.

Oh well, I guess we're going to just keep playing childish games instead of getting more information, like "They tell managers to do so and so." "The training manual says this and that, verbatim." "I read this and this in the manual." "They told me in a meeting to do this in order to get this as a response." Etc. etc.

I guess the OP just wants to throw all that out there, but he has nothing to back up this info with...If this stuff IS going on (and I 100% believe him, too), just share what you know, instead of making a big freakin' deal about everything! What's wrong with putting the truth out there??? You already shared some of it...What's wrong with elaborating more about this? You did say you were a FORMER retail salaried manager, right? confuse Nobody ever talks about what's in these manuals, but I'm sure it would be an eye-opener to everyone!

Date: Nov 7, 2018

And just think, guys...We think we've got it bad here...How'd ya like to work in China where the words "lazy, stupid dumba$$" are just not in their vocabulary??? They can't BE lazy! Most of you couldn't handle the 15-16 hour workdays!!! And that's just in the tech sector! How about their concept of 996, 9AM to 9PM 6 days a week??? And they're forced to do it with NO union!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/business/china-silicon-valley-technology.html

And it's all just to make their country the MOST POWERFUL DYSTOPIAN COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/business/china-surveillance-technology.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/china-surveillance/552203/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/how-hard-does-china-work

https://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2012/12/27/why-do-some-chinese-workers-have-such-long-work-weeks/#4fa3f0b86bc8

When you read all that, our "slave drivers" pale in comparison...But, I would bet you a million to one that the mental health of those people is probably the worst on the planet and I would also bet that their country's leaders do not care! One of those articles mentioned 600,000 people a year in China dying from overwork, if you believe the state-run media...I'm sure it's probably more (and we're not counting all the related illnesses where they don't die, but suffer all the same), but no one will admit it...

All I've got to say is...BE GLAD YOU HAVE A UNION, PEOPLE!

Date: Nov 7, 2018

Then again, this is happening right here in America...Wake up, people!

https://www.revealnews.org/article/inside-teslas-factory-a-medical-clinic-designed-to-ignore-injured-workers/

"Work until you die" seems like the new motto! disbelief

Date: Nov 13, 2018

Anonymous wrote:
There've been a few comments on here recently, re abusive managers with poor/no people skills.
A word or two on that.
As a former salaried retail manager, let me assure you: these people aren't just abberant personalities that accidentally slipped into their jobs; retail corporations seek these types out and/or push on the ones already among the ranks to be like this. It's all about domination and control = higher profits.
There are actual training materials on how to write people up; i.e., what types of responses you can expect, how best to counter them, etc. And there are step-by-step psychological based instructions on how much to verbally and mentally 'motivate' your employees without 'risking jeopardizing productive initiatives' ----that's the actual language used.
So bear all this in mind. Not only is reporting these abusive managers likely not going to get you anywhere, their behavior is expected----and rewared.
Pretty creepy, huh? Like Nazi Germany.

No wonder why this company can't keep anybody anymore. You drive a person to a certain level, they're gonna' go postal, trust me. All the guys I knew during the years who worked at Kroger left and went to other jobs & won't even shop in the place anymore. They'd rather go to Walmart, I don't blame'em one bit to be honest lol.