GenesisOne wrote:

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Kroger is installing more and more self scan units in stores. Most stores started out with four, and many of them have had at least two additional units installed. Some stores, especially Marketplaces, have more than six units. Kroger wants self scan attendants to be pulling customers away from express registers. Kroger wants more and more customers to use self scan. That's why there are self check out utilization reports done daily. The more customers willing and wanting to use self check out, the fewer cashiers and baggers that are needed to be on the payroll. The trend is Kroger wants self check out to play a bigger and bigger role in the check out process. That's why the company wants a certain percentage of customers to use self check out on a daily basis and that's why the company is spending money installing additional units in stores. In the future, it's not unreasonable to see Kroger exploring the idea of further expanding the role of self check out in checking customers out, especially as the number of customers comfortable with the technology continues to grow.

Kroger wants to pay the lowest wages possible. That's why new cashiers in my district start out at $7.45 an hour (used to be $7.35, but a new union contract changed that). Now if a Kroger store operates in a state with a higher minimum wage, then of course Kroger has to comply, but it's only because the company has to. For those cashiers that have been with the company for more than ten years, then they have an older union contract to protect them, but new ones, unless experience pay comes into play, are going to be paid close to minimum wage. That's how Kroger is. There are higher paying cashier jobs at other competitors, but Kroger is not a company that believes it's better to pay more in order to attract a high quality worker. Kroger is a company that believes one of the ways to lower prices and compete with Walmart is at the expense of the employees' paychecks. Kroger cannot survive in its current state if every cashier on the front end is paid eighteen dollars an hour. Not with the slim profit margins grocery stores in general operate under. Kroger can't pay as well as a company like ALDI because ALDI utilizes plenty of other means to keep expenses down, as does WinCo, and Costco pays very well, but a membership is required to shop there, and that partially offsets the company's expenses. Kroger wants to increase market share, and the company can't do that as effectively by paying a large percentage of its workers the hourly rate you're suggesting. Kroger wants to eliminate full time positions and that's yet another means of cutting costs in order to use that money elsewhere. Not saying it's right, but it's part of the company's strategy.

Doubling the federal minimum wage (for example) might sound great in theory, but where exactly do you expect that money to come from? If a company like Kroger suddenly has to pay out a minimum of $14.50 an hour to every employee, that money has to come from somewhere. Companies like Kroger aren't just going to take the hit. The labor force will be further scaled back and prices will go up. That's a bad situation for employees and customers alike. A company like Kroger would do this because if the company didn't, it would impact the bottom line. A lower bottom line means a weaker earnings per share. A weaker earnings per share means angry shareholders that start calling for change within the leadership of the company, and that is not a position any executive in any company wants to find himself or herself in. Companies out there that pay more than minimum wage are able to do so because of their unique business strategy (ALDI - small stores means lower electricity costs, less labor to stock, no baggers or cart crew, off brands; Costco/Sam's Club/Other Warehouse-type stores - charge membership fees). Yes, it's possible to pay workers more than minimum wage, but the cost is either passed on to the customer in a way that's acceptable to the customer, or the cost comes at a customer convenience or the products/services themselves sell at a higher rate to offset the greater company expenses.

-- Edited by GenesisOne on Friday 28th of November 2014 06:47:29 PM

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You know, to be frank, I don't care what Kroger wants or doesn't want. I'm not here to argue about that, because I'm sure if Kroger's CEO wants his 5 yachts and mansion then Kroger can't afford to pay its workers a living wage. I care about the fact that thousands of workers employed by Kroger Co. can't make rent, can't pay the bills, and/or can't afford to eat because Kroger chooses not to pay their workers fairly. If Kroger's business model is only sustainable when exploiting underpaid workers, then isn't that a crappy business model? I'd much rather the world was full of Costcos and Wincos than Krogers.

One of the primary arguments against the minimum wage is the tired, old "it will cause inflation and unemployment!" From what I've read there aren't statistics to support that. Additionally, it can be argued that if the minimum wage were raised, the average person would have more purchasing power and would end up putting that money right back into the economy. Retail, as everyone knows, is dying -- not just because of the rise of e-commerce but also because people are poorer than ever. The middle class in America has shrunk dramatically since the heyday of the American dream (and, coincidentally, when the minimum wage was the equivalent of ~$20+ an hour in today's dollar). To the contrary, if we stopped worrying about what Kroger can and can't sustain and started worrying about what real, living people need, then maybe our economy would be in better shape.

snailshell wrote:

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You know, to be frank, I don't care what Kroger wants or doesn't want. I'm not here to argue about that, because I'm sure if Kroger's CEO wants his 5 yachts and mansion then Kroger can't afford to pay its workers a living wage. I care about the fact that thousands of workers employed by Kroger Co. can't make rent, can't pay the bills, and/or can't afford to eat because Kroger chooses not to pay their workers fairly. If Kroger's business model is only sustainable when exploiting underpaid workers, then isn't that a crappy business model? I'd much rather the world was full of Costcos and Wincos than Krogers.

 

One of the primary arguments against the minimum wage is the tired, old "it will cause inflation and unemployment!" From what I've read there aren't statistics to support that. Additionally, it can be argued that if the minimum wage were raised, the average person would have more purchasing power and would end up putting that money right back into the economy. Retail, as everyone knows, is dying -- not just because of the rise of e-commerce but also because people are poorer than ever. The middle class in America has shrunk dramatically since the heyday of the American dream (and, coincidentally, when the minimum wage was the equivalent of ~$20+ an hour in today's dollar). To the contrary, if we stopped worrying about what Kroger can and can't sustain and started worrying about what real, living people need, then maybe our economy would be in better shape.

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Kroger as a company isn't going to change. As much as some employees deserve to be paid better for what they do, it's simply not going to happen. Kroger is in control of its business model and practices as well as the wages. If the company wanted to pay its employees better, it would, but it doesn't, and won't. Employees aren't strong enough to change that and neither are the unions. The Kroger Family of stores isn't really a family because the company feels no obligation to take care of its employees in the way you suggest. For that reason, it's up to employees either to work their way up to higher, better paying positions in the company, such as CSM or Lead Bookkeeper on the front end or try to find a better paying job. 

The average person would have more buying power with an increase in minimum wage, but what good is that additional buying power if the costs of goods and services go up as well in order for companies to maintain their profit margins? Those in the higher branches of companies aren't going to take salary cuts, pass up on bonuses and downsize their lifestyles to pay for the extra money being paid out to employees  and they aren't going to just sit by and watch their profit margins shrink because that means less money for expansion and a weaker earnings per share. You need to realize most companies, including the executives at Kroger, don't care about what real, living people need. These companies care about profit and profit alone. If that wasn't the case, the world wouldn't be the way it is today. If you want to see just how heartless a company like Kroger can be, then continue to push for a minimum wage increase. Then watch as hours are cut back even more, the number of employees employed in the stores is further reduced and benefits are scaled back even more, all the while prices for goods and services jump to cover the cost of a higher minimum wage.

snailshell wrote:

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I mean, at my store, we already have a payscale where most clerks get to the $17-19/hr range after a year and a half of work. Said employees still get 30+ hours a week, insurance, holiday pay, all the comforts we're used to as union employees. So, I don't see how you can continue to argue that paying employees fairly would cause some kind of great disaster when there are already Kroger stores in existence who currently pay their workers a decent wage. It's not like prices at my store are sky-high either.

I don't think workers in places like Alabama would need $18/hr necessarily, but something more than 10 cents over minimum wage.

Of course I know most companies don't care about what real, living people need, but it doesn't change the fact that they ought to. Why argue to keep things the same rather than try to change it in order to make the world better? And after admitting that Kroger is a bunch of a**holes, how can you continue to defend them? What do you get out of it?

I'd like to see it PROVEN that minimum wage hikes cause inflation. As I said, the statistics to support that don't exist (or are hotly contested). Instead, there's every indication that putting more money in the pockets of those at the lowest positions on the chain revitalizes the economy. As I said last post -- recall that when the minimum wage was over $20/hr in today's dollar back in the 60's, the American economy was in its heyday.

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Do you live along the west coast? That's one of the few parts of the country where circumstances would allow for such a high hourly pay for a position like cashier. The higher the minimum wage, the higher the cost of living. That can be observed just by looking at the numbers breakdown along the various states. Low cost of living in Texas means low minimum wage, high cost of living in California equals higher minimum wage. Other factors come into play of course, but if you live along the west coast like California or east coast like Florida or New York, prices for groceries, gas and stuff in general is going to be higher than say in Texas or the midwest.

I don't argue to keep things the same. I'm stating what the reality is. The reality is Kroger isn't going to change. The only way Kroger will pay its employees more is if the economy dramatically improves to the point where Kroger has to offer more money just to get job applications alone. If anything, this country is going in the opposite direction, with a larger population every year, fewer skill-based jobs to go around, and a less educated work force. This isn't the 1950s anymore and it never will be again. The country, and the world, has dramatically changed and what worked in a 20th century United States won't work in a 21st century United States.

I've read enough on the pros and cons of raising minimum wage to know that it's not a clear-cut case and there's no clear answer either way. You can pull up studies and arguments on both sides, but what is clear is most companies are against it because it jeopardizes the bottom line. If a gallon of milk in Texas at Kroger costs $2.98 for Springdale milk, what do you think it's going to cost if Kroger suddenly had to pay everyone a minimum of $10.10? The price for milk isn't going to stay the same because the profit margin would drop, so the price goes up, as does the price on everything else. What good is putting more money in a person's pocket if they have to spend more money to buy stuff? What I take away from everything I've read and heard about an increase in minimum wage is that the danger of companies raising prices to maintain the same profit margins (hence it's like not even getting a minimum wage increase to begin with) coupled with the prospects of scaling back the workforce outweigh what percentage of people would benefit.

If it was clear that a minimum wage increase would dramatically improve things in the country, President Obama would have made it a reality when he had the support of both the House and Senate, but the end result of an increase is too uncertain, and that's why it didn't happen and likely won't happen. The fear is it could increase the unemployment rate and increase the number of people seeking government benefits because they can't find work. Washington feels the risk outweighs the benefits, and that's because of how many factors are in play when raising the minimum wage.

The thing I find messed up is all the people thinking being a courtesy clerk is easy.  True there isn't as much skill involved in the task.  But there is a lot of hard work. I used to be one so I know. List of responsibilities. Some daily. Some not.

1. Bagging: Can be easy at times. Other times exhausting and the constant same motions can make a person sore. Not to mention the customers usually will send crushables first rather then the heavier stuff making it harder to find a good order to put stuff in carts. Some things like bread would be shoved to the side to be done last but not everything can be done like that. At our store we were taught that unless a kid was in the cart, start putting groceries in another cart. We usually had extra carts just behind us for just this purpose.  Sometimes though when you are either finished or almost finished loading the new cart, the customer would then be like "Oh can you put that in this cart" or they just straight up demand it. Why? I actually had one tell me when she was "requesting it" It was because she had already wiped hers down with a sanitizer cloth.  It is the sort of thing that used to aggravate me a lot.  I felt like asking "Do you wipe down every one of your groceries too?" Having to load stuff from one cart to another can be a pain when they have a lot of items. Especially since I would try to make sure heavier items were on the bottom of the cart.  Meaning I would have to pull stuff out back onto onto the area by the register just so I could move the heavier stuff over first.  Don't get me started on the paper bags either.  I hated those. Though not as much as the reusable.

2. Carts:  On a nice day I loved doing carts.  Yes it could be tiring and hard work. But it was nice to get out of the store. The bad side though is crazy drivers. Having to be out there no matter what the weather is and the stuff you find in carts.  The worst was in the winter. Last winter I was out there trying to push carts through the snow before the plows had even gotten there. Not an easy thing to do. Of course then when they do show you gotta play dodge the plow or they might not plow a certain area yet because of carts. You want to come in and get warmed up despite having been out there for 30 mins or more? Forget about it.  Five minutes after this a plow guy came in wanting us to move some carts out of this one side.  Guess who had to do it? Me.  Only had like 5 min to warm up if even that.   I lost track of the number of times I slipped and fell on the ice last winter too. Luckily I know how to fall so I don't get hurt.  Then you got the storms. Our store did have a policy where they wouldn't send us out if it was lightning.  We could go, but it was our choice. well when your pretty much empty on carts on both sides you don't really have much of a choice. Huge gust of wind, hail and lightning I'd dart out there trying to at least get what carts were close to the doors. When it settled down but was still lightning I went out there and quickly gathered up as much carts as I could.  I didn't do this for the managers though.  I did it cause I knew our customers needed carts.  I was able to get a little help from one of the ladies that worked in the front end office.  Then you just got the really hot days and the really cold ones. On both of those sorts I still stay out there for a good amount of time. Our store limited us to 30 mins in extreme temps. Hell that was the max time we were suppose to be out their period each time. But it wasn't unusual for me to be out there longer on a bad day.  On a good day I'd sometimes spend hours out there doing carts.  Mostly cause I wanted to be as far from front end as possible. lol. It was hard work but beat front end most of the time.  Still there were some days where it really would aggravate me.  Then Mondays and Fridays we had to get all the carts up off the floor so the floor guy could come in and do the floors. If we were having a really busy night there wasn't always a lot of time for this. So many times whoever is doing it would have to rush to get it done.

3. Changing Trash: Most of the time I didn't mind this. For us this includes front end trash, manager's office, break room and all the cans outside.  The problem the occurred sometimes is not all the beggars would get trash changed when they should. Some would skip the bullets in the lot.  Other times they just overflowed.  Then there were times the bags would actually break forcing you to have dig into the can itself.  Yes we could go grab a pair of rubber gloves but there usually isn't much time for that.  Since they want it done as quickly as you can do it, there isn't time to go get them so you have to deal with it the best you can.  If I was lucky, I could flag over another bagger to help me in this situation.  Hell many times if I noticed before hand this might happen, I would try to flag one down to have one hold the bag while i lifted the can and we made a transfer of the bag into a new bag.  BTW the trash bags Krogers uses usually aren't that great. Though before I quit I did find we were starting to get better bags.   Then one final task of course was hauling the trash in carts around back to the dumpster, usually through the outside since bags sometimes leaked, and then doing your best to heave them into the cans.   Occasionally we had to help out other departments with their trash. The worst was deli. Ever have a bag full of flour and raw chicken bust open on you when your trying to haul it into the dumpster?  It is horrible.

4. Cleaning Bathrooms: This would range anywhere from just checking them to actually performing deep cleans. Though most of our baggers just did a half ass job with them. When I first started I had to deep clean the bathrooms 2 days in a row.  I got compliments from all the women on how great the women's restroom was. They told me they had never seen them cleaner. lol. The thing is I was told to clean them but was never shown what chemicals I actually needed to use for what. Unlike many of our chemicals at home, it isn't so obvious what everything is when you go back there to get them.  I would actually have front end management complains about how long it took me to clean them.  They couldn't understand why it took so long? Mostly because everyone else half assed it.  My bathroom checks were usually quick but when it came to cleaning, I made sure it got done well. The reason everyone else did it so quickly is because they barely did anything at all.  They also didn't like that when I was cleaning them I would often ignore them when they called. Though sometimes I just couldn't hear them. lol.

5. Sweeping Floors: I never minded sweeping floors.  It wasn't too hard and I did a good job with it.  It was annoying though when doing floor sweeps how they liked to call me up to the front but them seem to be aggravated that I have pushed this big pile of dirt along with the giant sweeper.  I really didn't have much of a choice.  If I had one aisle left or had just finished and was pushing it to the back to throw it away, I would ignore them. Also the speed in which you get done with this depends on how busy the store is.  You can only really move as quick as the customers you get stuck behind. Many times I ended up following the came groups of customers around the store just because we were all going the same way. I offered assistance whenever I could.

6. Gobacks:  At first I didn't care for it but I grew to enjoy doing them. Mostly because it got me away from the front.  But they weren't always so easy to do. There were times we would have a lot of them to do. Then you get the items that for some reason it isn't where it should be.  It wasn't unusual for me to end up asking another employee where something is and them having issues finding where it goes as well. Even management had issues at times.  The funny thing is there were a few times when a customer would actually know where something went and would tell me.  Then there is helping customers while I am out there doing them.  Which sometimes would end up taking a lot of time out of what I am trying to do. Like showing someone where something in Produce is when I am all the way over near the bread aisle or vice versa.  In our store they were on opposite sides. Then you also have to decide if some of what is in the goback baskets you put in the cart is even a goback and not dsd.  Yes we had a dsd basket.  But not everything put in the regular ones were good and some things were just empty boxes.

7. Collecting Caps:  Ok this one isn't hard and I enjoyed collecting the alcohol caps. lol


8. Sweeping Sidewalk/ Parking Lot: This is another one that usually isn't bad. It is also one that usually isn't assigned on a bad weather day. 


9. Shoveling snow: This was definitely not in the job description that I was told when I was hired but was something I discovered we also had to do.  I was not happy the first time I had to do this.


10.  Cleaning up Spills: Funny thing whenever I was there, I was usually the one called to do this. The thing is I needed to see the spill to figure out the best way to clean it. Most times we just just used spill magic though there were times mop and bucket did the job better. What was a pain was how no one seemed to know how to refill the spill magic buckets at the spill stations. It seriously wasn't hard and was the number 1 reason I didn't always get a spill cleaned up as fast as some might like.  I would have to get the container, fill it up more, then clean up the spill, then refill it again if I had to use a lot of spill magic. I think I may have been our only bagger to actually to actually refill it when it was low.  While most spills weren't hard to clean up, there were some that proved to be a pain.  If I was already having a bad day this would just make it worse.  I got sick of being one of their go to spill guys.


11. Helping customers with carry outs: While I never minded doing this, depending on the weather and how much they had it could be a pain. But I would do it. It would give me a chance to interact more with customers and to just chat with them.  I got along with most of our customers and wanted to do what I could to help them. Occasionally I'd get a couple dollars from them for my trouble.  Yes I know Kroger employees are not supposed to accept tips but if I was in the lot and they offered, I wasn't going to say no. Not on minimum wage.  Besides some customers considered it rude to not take tips.


12. Other things: Basicly anything else they wanted to do.  Such as helping out other departments.  They had me and some others pull stuff off certain shelves so they could be cleaned and fans be worked on in various departments.  Then the next day come in really early to put the stuff back up.  These were late shifts for taking off and the next day early to put back on.  I hated those days cause of the hours but on the other hand it wasn't so bad because after we were run those of us they had do it, we were free to do pretty much what we wanted. Occasionally some would get sent home early.  Though me and another one of our harder working bagger would usually go take our break when we were done, then come back and help out front line. First by clearing the lot. Then with other things that they need help with.  It wasn't bad because we weren't tied down to the front end on what we could do. We had a real choice those days. Some would use it to good off. Others like myself used it do more to actually help around the place.  Another time I had to move our heavy stop sign from one area to another.  Then there is the giant sign in front. The baggers are the ones to change announcement letters on those too. Yes ours wasn't digital.  Another time I had to out back and actually sweep up all the trash and stuff that had collected down in the truck loading areas outside. 

With everything a bagger has to do and deal with on a daily basis at work, they deserve to make more then minimum wage.  I know cashiers have their own level of hell to deal with but it isn't quite as bad as the baggers.  The bagger is the bagger, janitor, cart collector and a store slave all rolled into one job.  They have to the jobs of multiple positions for low pay.  Is it any wonder many become lazy and get to the point where they don't care about how well they do their job?  Even a hard worker like myself had a hard even giving a **** at the end. The only thing they kept me from doing a ****ty job was my work ethic. When I was hired on here is what they told me my responsibilities would be.  Bagging, occasionally collecting carts and occasionally changing trash.  That is what I was told.  As much as I needed the job, had I been told all I'd have to do for min wage, I'd have laughed in the women's face and just walked out.  Never mind the fact that my first day I didn't even know was going to be my first day.  I got me a call on December 27th asking why I wasn't at work.  The personnel manager called me and was like "I thought you were going to start today"   No one had even called me to tell me I had the job. I was still waiting to hear back from them because they were doing my background check.  I did later find out though why she thought this though I didn't bring it up there. There was another guy with the same name who did start that day as a bagger.  Same first name, different last name but the same letter.  I can only assume there was a mix up.  Which of course got me to thinking that the reason they were interviewing me for a bagger position to begin with may have been a mix up.  I had called to set up my interview.  When I had went in she was like "As I told you on the phone it is for the bagger position"   She of course never said that to me. In fact she actually made a point to notice that I had some stocking experience.  I was actually taken by surprise when she mentioned it was for the bagger position because of that.  It makes me wonder if with that she had also gotten me mixed up with that guy as well.  I shouldn't have ignored them warning signs.  Kroger is a poorly run hell hole.   It's worse then Wal-mart.  I have worked for Wal-mart and Kroger made me miss it.   As bad as Wal-mart is,  at least they seem to have their **** together.