Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Kroger now forces debit cards to use their pins
Anonymous

Date:
RE: Kroger now forces debit cards to use their pins
Permalink   


As much as I hate being "forced" into anything, Kroger is merely moving forward with what will be happening with most (if not all) retailers in the next few years.  People need to understand a few things first:

1.  This is not a "credit/debit" issue.  Has nothing to do with it.  EMV cards (chip cards) are the latest technology already in use for years everywhere else EXCEPT the USA.

2.  This is a transition period that will take years - eventually 95% of retailers will be using EMV capable transaction devices and your cards WILL have chips in them.

3.  The mag stripe will become obsolete, yet will remain on your cards simply because of backward compatibility and the chance that you visit a retailer in the 5% that doesn't convert to the EMV process.

4.  This entire change is moving forward because of LIABILITY.  As part of the EMV (Europay, Mastercard, Visa) standard agreement, any bank that doesn't change to the new system will be held liable for any illegal or fraudulent transactions - NOT the card companies.  Moving down the line - any retailer that doesn't make the change, well, THEY will be held responsible for illegal/fraudulent charge, NOT the bank.  See where this is going?  Everyone is simply trying to protect their bottom line.  Now, who's at the bottom of the food chain that has to deal with it?  The consumer.

5.  All cards, whether they are debit or credit, will eventually use this technology.  A PIN number is more secure than a mag stripe - not perfect, mind you, but more secure.  I can steal a mag stripe's info with a hidden reader on every single swipe you do on any given machine anywhere.  Unless I can see you entering your PIN number, it's (more) secure.

6.  Right now, you have a few methods of verification:  Swipe and sign, Swipe and PIN, Dip and Sign, or Dip and PIN (inserting your chip card into a reader is called "dipping").  Whether or not you need to verify with signature or PIN after your transaction is also dependent on the transaction amount (usually less than $25 at retailers and less than $50 at grocery stores), but is also not written in stone.

7.  People in the USA are so used to signing, the move to PIN numbers will be tough.  Making it harder is the fact that people associate a PIN number with debit cards.  Have you ever had to enter a PIN with a CREDIT transaction?  Never.  We use PINs on debit transactions, making them no different than an ATM withdrawal.  This just adds to the confusion.  People need to disassociate this method and start thinking of PIN numbers as a signature.  You're eventually going to be required to enter a PIN number for ANY transaction, whether it's credit or debit - makes no difference.

8.  As for security - a mag stripe is quick and simple, the same information is transmitted every single time you swipe.  With an EMV card, the chip talks to the issuing organization and creates a unique transaction code EVERY time you use the card, so it is a different code for every use, and MUCH MORE secure than a swipe.  Because of this, the transaction is a few seconds longer.  Are you really going to bitch that your time is so valuable that you can't afford a few extra seconds per transaction?  Ridiculous.

So, what's all this mean?  I don't like being forced into anything just as much as the next person, but Kroger isn't the real problem here.  In fact, there really isn't any problem.  This is where things are going, and if you don't like it now, you're certainly not going to like it when you see it everywhere eventually.  This is the direction that the USA must go to catch up with the rest of the world.  Again, realize that most of the other countries in the world have been doing this for years now.  As with anything, we think the world should do everything WE do, well, we all have to play in the same sandbox and sometimes we just have to suck it up and play along.  Stop blaming Kroger, stop blaming the banks, etc.  As long as money is involved, those that have more of it will make the decisions.  That's life.  You could, of course, always use cash.  Or, how about a checkbook?  Does anyone still use those?  

 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

There are definite security benefits to chip cards, but these companies are very capable of letting us use these cards as credit transactions. Whether it makes you use a signature or PIN, the issue I have is that it forces a debit transaction. Personally my bank allows me to get 2% interest rates on the money in my checking account if I satisfy a few conditions. One condition being that I use at least $500 worth of credit transactions with my debit card per month. This interest rate can add up to $$$ over an entire year. So until Kroger allows credit transactions with chip debit cards, I'll have to shop elsewhere.. And it sucks since Kroger is so conveniently located.  

Phew, just had to get that written out.. it's been bugging me recently. 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

If you think corporate managers don't read a forum for their employees, then you are the Dumnass. 

in fact, it's the first place they look.

 

And yes, to those poor overworked souls who have to spend their time putting away someone's groceries because they refuse to enter a pin, I do feel sorry for you. But that does hurt corporate. Because they have to spend that time, management WILL take notice. They have to hire more people to keep up with the customer issues, which costs money, which does make this CHOICE (elimination of credit option on debit cards) a negative to the company. 

And, it violates VISAs terms of use. 

Check out the lawsuit by walmart when they tried to do the same thing. 



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3387
Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

If you think corporate managers don't read a forum for their employees, then you are the Dumnass. 

in fact, it's the first place they look.

 

And yes, to those poor overworked souls who have to spend their time putting away someone's groceries because they refuse to enter a pin, I do feel sorry for you. But that does hurt corporate. Because they have to spend that time, management WILL take notice. They have to hire more people to keep up with the customer issues, which costs money, which does make this CHOICE (elimination of credit option on debit cards) a negative to the company. 

And, it violates VISAs terms of use. 

Check out the lawsuit by walmart when they tried to do the same thing. 


 They have to hire more people to keep up with the customer issues... They have to hire more people to keep up with the customer issues... They have to hire more people to keep up with the customer issues??

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, YOU'RE FUNNY.

 
 
 
 
 


__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

If you think corporate managers don't read a forum for their employees, then you are the Dumnass. 

in fact, it's the first place they look.

 


This isn't an official Kroger forum designated for employees. 

Even if some people at corporate/some managers situated at a corporate/regional/division/district/store level are aware of this forum, do you honestly think they care in the slightest? Uh, try "no". They probably get a good laugh at reading just how miserable the employees that post here are before going back to happily staring at their bank accounts.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I actually like the policy. Now I can take my Kroger ad and go to other stores and have them happily match the Kroger price and not force me to use a PIN. Kroger is lining their pockets with extra profit from forcing debits over credits. its about time we all go to Kroger and fill our carts with ice cream and other perishable goods and not be able to pay because we don't know what our PIN is. Fire with fire. 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Sorry but that is not true.  It is the vendor's software that is requiring the pin under the guise of customer fraud protection.  What it boils down to is that pin based transaction carry a much less expensive flat fee instead of the percentage associated with credit cards.  What these big companies are not telling you is that is puts consumers at a greater risk for fraud by exposing their pin.  If it is pin based transaction, you are longer covered under Visa liability program.  It falls back to your bank's policies which do not offer near the protection of Visa.  To save a few pennies per transaction, your retailers are putting their customers at a greater financial risk. 



__________________
VK

Date:
Permalink   

You're not reading the comments correctly.....the people who are complaining do NOT have a debit-only card....they have a debit + credit card, which entitles them to use it either way, as a credit or debit.  I agree totally with the customers here who are complaining that you can't run your debit/credit bankcard at Kroger's as a CREDIT...I've tried, and after I insert my debit/credit chip card into the slot I get a screen that says "How much cash back do I want?"  I select $0, then it wants me to enter a PIN.  I've never done that, and cancelled the transaction at that point.

I know, in Europe, that if you have a debit/credit card, you still have to enter a PIN first, then it takes you to a screen where you can select DEBIT or CREDIT.   Has anyone, at Kroger's, tried entering a PIN and seeing if you get that option?  Next time I'm there I'll try it.  If it doesn't give me a credit option, I'm shopping elsewhere.  I've complained to the main Kroger's office, at their headquarters....they told me they had no plans to change things in the future.  I told them bye.

 



__________________
VK

Date:
Permalink   

I did some more research, and went directly to the Kroger web site:

https://www.kroger.com/topic/checking-out-with-your-chip-enabled-card

Underneath the subheading "What's changing?" it says:

Debit:

"You can no longer run your debit card as credit. Youll now be required to use your secure PIN to verify your transaction."

So there you have it....Kroger won't run debit/credit cards as a credit anymore.  I'm done with them.  My bank rewards me for using my bankcard as a credit card, so I'll be going to Albertson's.

 

 

 

 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I wanted to post this also....there is a way around the credit/debit debacle at Kroger's...

The cashier at the Smith's liquor store (part of Kroger's) where I lived showed me a trick - you put the card in the chip reader, but don't insert it fully, just most of the way.  You'll get a "CARD READ MALFUNCTION" notice, and it will tell you to reinsert the card.  If you do this 3 times in a row, you finally get a message that says "CARD READ ERROR - USE SWIPE TO COMPLETE TRANSACTION", or something to that effect.  You then swipe the card and voila - you are presented with a choice of processing the transaction with debit or credit, just like before.  

I don't know, if you continually do this, if your banking institution will lock the card after, say, 12 times of malfunctions.  My credit union thought that might happen, but they weren't sure.  I'm going to keep doing it this way until my card gets locked out...if it eventually does, I'll stop shopping there for sure.  I may stop shopping there anyway, they're really pissing me off with this anti-customer behavior.

 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Same thing happened to me yesterday. I have a buggy full of groceries and went to use credit on my new chip card. Would not work. Cashier said this happens all the time. Manager comes down and said oh yes we take credit on chip cards. She swiped it and said my bank is not letting credit go through. Furious because everyone is watching this, I left and called my bank. They told me they did not deny credit to go to internet and read about Kroger not letting customers use chip cards without pin numbers. I was shocked. They had lied to me in front of everyone. A long time customer is now going to shop at Publix who values their customers. It seems Kroger wants you to use their new Mastercard offered on line. That is the bottom line to this whole thing. Shame on Kroger.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Why not just tell the truth to customers instead of the tactic that your bank will not let it go through. Post a sign for customers. Let them know it is for their safety. Don't lie and embarrass them in line.



__________________
VK

Date:
Permalink   

As an addendum to what I've posted previously, I recently found out that, if you do swipe your card now, ANYWHERE, and run it as a credit that you are responsible for any fraudulent charges that may appear.  This is a federal ruling, and came about because of the chip card readers.  Basically, it is saying that if a store doesn't have chip card technology by now, swiping the card as a credit transaction puts the onus on the consumer.  So, if you were to follow my suggestion of inserting the card 3 times in the chip slot so it malfunctions, then swiping it, you would not be protected against fraud.  Same thing applies if you go to another store that doesn't have chip technology installed yet....from my understanding, you would still be on the hook for fraudulent charges if you swipe the card.  Doesn't seem fair, if the merchant doesn't have a chip reader - but, this is the society we live in now.  Pass the buck.  In any case, it still doesn't excuse Kroger, or Walgreens, or any other merchant that has chip card technology, from forcing you to run your purchase as a debit (i.e., PIN number) instead of a credit, if you have a debit/credit bankcard.  



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

U can use ur chip at Walgreens as credit, you have to hit the yellow button, I do it all the time, but their clerks don't know if you ask them



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

BULL****! I run my my chip enabled card at several major retailers and still have the credit option. Kroger is trying to save themselves the 3.5% credit processing fee, so now I will shop at Meijer. Way to go Kroger, you just lost 20k a year in receipts. 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Just what I thought, all about The money.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

When they lose enough customers to tip the scales as losing too much money, they will change back.  All about the  $$$$$$$.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I called Kroger corporate office and they basically told me that if I had a PIN enabled debit card I had to use it. Simply because they said they lose money with customers using the credit feature.  There has been a way to override that feature. The cashier did something like cancel the transaction three times,did a few other things and it worked.  Do you know how to make it work?  Thanks.

 

Brian



__________________
Lana

Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

 I forgot they didn't take Debit as credit. I have been trying for a couple of weeks at different Ralphs.  ALL other major merchants want you to use POS and push the PIN box in front of selection.  This is fine... BUT, if you either don't know your pin or have forgotten it, you MUST have an option to select Credit.  Also, if you want to DELAY the actual charged because, you get paid the next day... you should be allowed to choose Credit.   Geez. Add a flipping fee if you need to.   I generally get LESS cash, and this wouldn't matter.  But my Credit Union has added REWARDS to Debit Cards and DOUBLE POINTS for GROCERY.   I have to choose credit for this option.   The Clerks were honest about the extra fees merchants might have to pay for Credit, and that they have no option, other than if you DO it wrong 3 times, you can use the MAGSTRIPE, but not every rep knows that.   I have no problem with forcing the PIN box, I have a problem with being UNABLE to opt to use the Credit function of the Debit card.      Now ... i either shop elsewhere, force me into getting a Credit Card with the CU,   ETC.     Their cost for Credit VS DEBIT is the same.. they could loose some loyal customers since REWARDS are everywhere. 

 

 

Lana 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

It is just Kroger because I don't have that problem anywhere else



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

As long as the sign outside says we take MasterCard and not we take MasterCard Debit (it's an option; some stores that disagree with MasterCard's merchant agreement, like Family Dollar or Dollar General, don't accept MasterCard as a credit card & their sign doesn't say we take MasterCard; it says we take MasterCard Debit) then they are committing fraud by refusing to honor a card that they have an agreement with MasterCard to take. I would suggest that you ask for a manager, hand them the cart full of perishable items, tell the competitor you're leaving to go to instead, explain why you're leaving, and let them know that you're reporting them to MasterCard for fraudulently advertising that they accept MasterCard when they really only take MasterCard Debit once you get home. If you're in Texas, also let them know that you're gonna be reporting them for violating the TDTPA (Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act). Then once you get home from the competitor, actually report them to all of those.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

Kroger just did themselves in. they enabled the chip readers on their POS terminals. At the same time they forced chip enabled debit cards to provide their pins, the credit option was no longer available. I'm seeing major pushback from the customers with whole carts being abandoned.

I don't know about you, but I barely trust my bank to keep my pin safe; I certainly don't trust Kroger, HEB, Home Depot or anybody else to keep my pin safe. This policy is based on greed. It costs .25 cents to process a debit transaction and 3.5% to process a credit transaction, the dollar signs in their eyes got the better of them. I think this policy will be short lived.


 That is the purpose of the chip. To help make it more secure. Using a pin is more secure than pushing credit, because guess what? Anyone can get your card bypass the pin push credit, and go crazy with another persons money. Then you'll seear it's your banks fault and they did not found enough to protect you.people which complain about using their pins are idiots. Only place you don't enter your pun is online, but something tells me people that complain about using their pins in the store, have no problem entering it online in unsecure websites.9



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

VK wrote:

I did some more research, and went directly to the Kroger web site:

https://www.kroger.com/topic/checking-out-with-your-chip-enabled-card

Underneath the subheading "What's changing?" it says:

Debit:

"You can no longer run your debit card as credit. Youll now be required to use your secure PIN to verify your transaction."

So there you have it....Kroger won't run debit/credit cards as a credit anymore.  I'm done with them.  My bank rewards me for using my bankcard as a credit card, so I'll be going to Albertson's.

 

 

 

 


 If you're going to use it as credit, then just get s credit card with rewards. It's not that complicated. Or maybe your credit is terrible see o you can't do that. Not Kroger's problem. Go to Albertsons, Kroger has enough stupid customers anyway.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

I wanted to post this also....there is a way around the credit/debit debacle at Kroger's...

The cashier at the Smith's liquor store (part of Kroger's) where I lived showed me a trick - you put the card in the chip reader, but don't insert it fully, just most of the way.  You'll get a "CARD READ MALFUNCTION" notice, and it will tell you to reinsert the card.  If you do this 3 times in a row, you finally get a message that says "CARD READ ERROR - USE SWIPE TO COMPLETE TRANSACTION", or something to that effect.  You then swipe the card and voila - you are presented with a choice of processing the transaction with debit or credit, just like before.  

I don't know, if you continually do this, if your banking institution will lock the card after, say, 12 times of malfunctions.  My credit union thought that might happen, but they weren't sure.  I'm going to keep doing it this way until my card gets locked out...if it eventually does, I'll stop shopping there for sure.  I may stop shopping there anyway, they're really pissing me off with this anti-customer behavior.

 


 This site is for employees not customers. If you have a problem with Kroger call them directly, don't complain on here. That is not what this site is for.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

You're wrong. It is just Kroger. And here we are in 2018 and it's still just Kroger.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

IDK Why your having an issue I use my debit card places and some require me to enter a pin and some do not however everyplace I have been forced to use my pin which I could card less about it still goes through as credit and does not come out as debit so idk what the deal is. Besides facts are facts Id before even credit cards to require this as well it saves you if you lose your card from someone else using it. Also idk why it matters its coming from the same account anyways and also if it has the chip no one will know your pin number unless your out telling everone



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Would you rather have a choice and pay more for everything or let them use the pin and save money and pass the savings or just charge you if youd rather run oyur card the other way which some places are doing



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

Since getting my first chip card over two years ago, my chipped debit card has been compromised 5 times. Yes, you read that right. I have had to replace my debit card 5 times. And I believe it has something to do specifically with King Soopers' (Kroger's) terminal systems along with the fact that, at least at the locations nearest me, I am required to enter my pin with every purchase.

I even tested my theory. With the 4th card which I received in July 2017, I decided not use it at King Soopers for at least six months and I used my credit card instead. But I did use my debit card in many other locations, as well as online.  None of the other retail and/or gas station locations required a pin and I was given the option to select Credit instead (which of course I did).  I should note that I also have a chipped credit card from the same financial institution (a credit union), and that card has never compromised (at least not yet). 

Fast forward 7 months from receiving my 4th card.  I decided that since I hadn't experienced any fraudulent activity, I would try using it again at King Soopers.  I started using it intermittently starting in Jan. 2018. Three months later I got the (expected) call from the fraud department of my credit union reporting suspicious activity on my debit card.  Someone attempted to make two withdrawals of $200+ each in Plano, Texas.  I live in Colorado and was in my home with my debit card 'safely' tucked away in my purse when I got the call.  Obviously the thieves not only had my debit card number but they also had my pin.  And the only placed where I've been forced to enter my pin has been King Soopers. I don't think its too far of a stretch to believe this is not a coincidence. 

I did a bit more research, tracing to Jan to determine how many transactions I had made with King Soopers vs how many transactions I had done using my debit card where no pin was required.  The ratio was disturbingly high on the King Soopers side. And to me it only makes sense that there is something going on with King Soopers' terminals that is allowing debit card/pin info to be fraudulently captured.  I will be doing more research to determine if I am an isolated case but my guess is I will find I am not. 

 



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink   

If you have a visa, just press enter where it asks for your pin snd you can skip it.

__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I have a mastercard and there is no option to override. There are many other stores that do have that as an option, and I've even asked King Sooper's management why their terminals aren't programmed that way. They said it has to do with the issuing bank and not their terminals.  But I've already talked to my credit union (on several occasions actually) and they said King Soopers is incorrect. Banks do not determine how retailers program their terminals. 



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

You are incorrect! Kroger is the only one. Walmart was doing the same thing and they figured it was more important to keep the customer so they set up their card readers to give customers the option of selecting sign for the items and once you select that it will process the transaction without a signature if the amount is not large and you are a regular customer or allow a signature.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I wasted an hour shopping at Krogers filling up my cart tonight ... only to be dead stopped at the check out trying to use my chip mastercard ... kept asking for a pin that i dont have never had and never needed anywhere else before and used this credit card for over 5 years now .... so i walked out leaving a cart full ... i hope the hour they wasted of my time and the hour they had to pay an employ to put all the groceries back was worth it ... i will not go back there until they fix there credit card terminals ... and open BACK UP some of the REAL person to person check out lines 

thanks for NOTHING Krogers ! 



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 450
Date:
Permalink   

Anonymous wrote:

I wasted an hour shopping at Krogers filling up my cart tonight ... only to be dead stopped at the check out trying to use my chip mastercard ... i hope the hour they wasted of my time and the hour they had to pay an employ to put all the groceries back was worth it ... i will not go back there until they fix there credit card terminals ... 


 You'll be back. They always come back.



__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 57
Date:
Permalink   

Learn your debit card's PIN, stop complaining when you don't know your own financial information.

And it's definitely a debit card, even if you normally run it as "credit" (a misnomer, it's what's more technically called an "offline" transaction, run through the credit network with a hold being placed on the funds which clears in a day or two rather than the funds immediately transferring). Kroger's terminals let credit cards run either with no authorization/authentication for smaller transactions or require a signature.

__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

I have bank chip debit cards one from one bank and another from another bank. Kroger allows one the choice credit or pin option. The other bank pin only. Double stander not right.



__________________
Anonymous

Date:
Permalink   

That's good and bad. I know a lot of people who just run it as credit and never bothered to memorize their pin. Just means we'll get that pissy customer that can't pay for their food when they try to run it as credit. I mean it's not that difficult to memorize a 4 digit number. Most people use a mix of their family's b-dates. 



__________________
«First  <  1 2 3 | Page of 3  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard